1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,800 The following programme contains strong language. 2 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,840 Court! 3 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,920 The whole case against them is a fiction. 4 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:17,880 It's a lie. The entire prosecution case 5 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,999 rested on this... fragment of electronic circuit board. 6 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,096 Rested on this... fragment of electronic circuit board. 7 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,160 It was a clue, but no one could identify it 8 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,920 until a forensic scientist at the FBI did nearly a year later. 9 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:28,000 He matched it to timers they'd seized from Libyan Intelligence agents. 10 00:01:28,001 --> 00:01:31,720 He matched it to timers they'd seized from Libyan Intelligence agents. 11 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,320 British forensic scientists agreed with the FBI. 12 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,000 Similar in all respects. 13 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,680 The timers that the fragment circuit board came from 14 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,720 were made by MEBO, a Swiss company owned by Edwin Bollier. 15 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:43,999 Yes, we supplied Libya 16 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,000 Yes, we supplied Libya 17 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,120 with 20 of these timers. 18 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,800 MEBO used long delay timers, 19 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,960 which are manually set to trigger the bomb's detonator hours in advance. 20 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,880 So my question is, why put the bomb onto two flights, 21 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,760 Malta to Frankfurt, Frankfurt to Heathrow, 22 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,600 before it goes on the plane you want to blow up? It doesn't make sense. 23 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:00,000 You run the risk of your suitcase being found 24 00:02:00,001 --> 00:02:01,736 You run the risk of your suitcase being found 25 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,680 by security at three airports. 26 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,600 It's clearly a ludicrous basis for a prosecution. 27 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:07,999 Next... 28 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:08,880 Next... 29 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:10,400 Tony Gauci. 30 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,120 Now, he claims that Megrahi bought from his shop 31 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,000 the clothes that were wrapped around the bomb inside the suitcase. 32 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,280 But a year before he identified Megrahi, he mentioned someone else. 33 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,999 Abu Talb, a terrorist with links to Palestinian militant groups 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,096 Abu Talb, a terrorist with links to Palestinian militant groups 35 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,920 operating out of Syria. 36 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,320 One of the Scottish Police's first suspects. 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,999 The whole prosecution case against Fhimah and Megrahi is full of holes. 38 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:32,600 The whole prosecution case against Fhimah and Megrahi is full of holes. 39 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:35,520 It was presented as a foregone conclusion from the very first day. 40 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,880 These men are guilty. We will get a conviction. 41 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:39,999 Murtagh represented the US Department of Justice. 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:40,320 Murtagh represented the US Department of Justice. 43 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,560 He said that before the trial began, but nothing has been proven. 44 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,800 But if it wasn't them, then who? 45 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:48,000 Iran. Syria. 46 00:02:48,001 --> 00:02:50,280 Iran. Syria. 47 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,600 But, Jim, they moved on from them. There's more. 48 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:55,840 One of the prosecution's last witnesses 49 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:56,000 was a German Police explosives expert. 50 00:02:56,001 --> 00:02:57,640 Was a German Police explosives expert. 51 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,920 They wanted him to destroy the Palestinian theory. 52 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:02,920 Remember the initial suspects, the PFLP-GC? 53 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:03,999 Well, he did the opposite. 54 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:04,560 Well, he did the opposite. 55 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,080 Flight 103 could only have been brought down by a PFLP-GC device 56 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,999 if it had been primed or put on board at Heathrow. 57 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,456 If it had been primed or put on board at Heathrow. 58 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,840 And a baggage handler at Heathrow saw two suitcases. 59 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,600 There was two new suitcases lying in the container. 60 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:20,000 I didn't put them there. 61 00:03:20,001 --> 00:03:22,160 I didn't put them there. 62 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,920 Was the bomb that killed Flora in one of those suitcases? 63 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Was the bomb loaded onto the plane at Heathrow? 64 00:03:28,001 --> 00:03:30,160 Was the bomb loaded onto the plane at Heathrow? 65 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,080 Is Iran behind it? Is Syria? 66 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,880 Did a member of the PFLP-GC put the suitcase there? 67 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:36,000 Nothing in this whole case adds up. Nothing. 68 00:03:36,001 --> 00:03:38,560 Nothing in this whole case adds up. Nothing. 69 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,840 Fhimah and Megrahi are both innocent. 70 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,800 Would you give me please your verdict 71 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,999 in respect of the named accused, Al Amin Khalifa Fhimah? 72 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,200 In respect of the named accused, Al Amin Khalifa Fhimah? 73 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,120 Not guilty. 74 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,999 Would you give me please your verdict 75 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:56,520 Would you give me please your verdict 76 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,880 in respect of the named accused, Abdelbaset al-Megrahi? 77 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,120 Guilty. 78 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,040 He can't be... 79 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,999 He can't... 80 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:28,720 He can't... 81 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,440 For the crime of murder is 20 years... 82 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,000 ..life imprisonment.. 83 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:44,000 ..and that is the sentence that we impose. 84 00:05:44,001 --> 00:05:45,960 ..and that is the sentence that we impose. 85 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,000 Jim? 86 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,360 Jim! Quick, get someone, please! 87 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,720 He's collapsed. Please, help me. 88 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,560 Please, help me. Can we get someone in here? Please get someone. 89 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,000 Jim, Jim, it's alright. 90 00:06:16,001 --> 00:06:17,520 Jim, Jim, it's alright. 91 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,080 Jim, it's alright. Need a doctor. 92 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,160 It's alright, Jim. Please... 93 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,999 Coming to us live from New York. 94 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,720 Coming to us live from New York. 95 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,560 Reports are reaching us of a collision 96 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,560 involving a passenger plane 97 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,999 which appears to have struck the World Trade Centre. 98 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,616 Which appears to have struck the World Trade Centre. 99 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,960 Let's go over to our colleagues in New York. 100 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,440 Tip of Manhattan, you're looking at the World Trade Centre. 101 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:04,000 We understand that a plane has crashed into the World Trade Centre. 102 00:07:04,001 --> 00:07:06,880 We understand that a plane has crashed into the World Trade Centre. 103 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,240 We don't know anything more than that. 104 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:11,520 We don't know if it was a commercial aircraft. 105 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:12,000 We don't know if it was a private aircraft. 106 00:07:12,001 --> 00:07:13,456 We don't know if it was a private aircraft. 107 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,000 We have no idea how many were on board, 108 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,680 or what the extent of the injuries are right now. 109 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:20,000 Oh... Oh, my God! 110 00:07:20,001 --> 00:07:21,880 Oh... Oh, my God! 111 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,560 A second plane. 112 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,440 It looks like a second plane has hit the south tower 113 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:27,999 of the World Trade Centre. 114 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,016 of the World Trade Centre. 115 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,120 Oh... Oh... 116 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,560 My God... Um, it looks to be a passenger jet. 117 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,880 The second plane... 118 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,760 Fucking terrorists. 119 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:51,999 Good luck with your appeal now, huh? 120 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,440 Good luck with your appeal now, huh? 121 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,880 These acts of mass murder 122 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:00,000 were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat. 123 00:08:00,001 --> 00:08:02,680 Were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat. 124 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,560 But they have failed. 125 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,600 These terrorists will regard us all as targets. 126 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,240 More Muslim terror. 127 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:15,999 Forget political correctness. 128 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:16,560 Forget political correctness. 129 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,560 Racially profile... Racial factor. 130 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,320 Number of hate crimes- 131 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,040 Four attempted arson attacks on Arab businesses. 132 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,000 Muslims threatened with gunfire. The target of hate- 133 00:08:24,001 --> 00:08:26,016 Muslims threatened with gunfire. The target of hate- 134 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,760 War on terror. War on terror.Terrorist.Terrorist. 135 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,240 Terrorism must be fought resolutely. 136 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,000 We will find those who did it. 137 00:08:32,001 --> 00:08:33,216 We will find those who did it. 138 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,480 We'll smoke them out of their holes and we'll bring them to justice. 139 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,440 After a year of witnesses testifying, 140 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:40,000 al-Megrahi's appeal against his life sentence 141 00:08:40,001 --> 00:08:42,160 al-Megrahi's appeal against his life sentence 142 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,200 was refused earlier today 143 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,880 by a panel of five judges at Camp Zeist, who concluded 144 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:48,000 that none of the grounds of his appeal were well-founded. 145 00:08:48,001 --> 00:08:51,680 That none of the grounds of his appeal were well-founded. 146 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,720 No surprises there. 147 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,999 Mr Al Megrahi has been flown to Scotland, 148 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,280 Mr Al Megrahi has been flown to Scotland, 149 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,520 where he will serve his 20-year life term 150 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:02,280 here at Barlinnie Prison, outside Glasgow. 151 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:12,000 You better fucking watch yourself. 152 00:09:12,001 --> 00:09:13,760 You better fucking watch yourself. 153 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,160 Youse gonna die, you dirty rag-head! 154 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,999 Welcome to Scotland. You're screwed, pal. 155 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:20,520 Welcome to Scotland. You're screwed, pal. 156 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,560 If you want room service, just ring. 157 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:52,000 How are you, darling? 158 00:09:52,001 --> 00:09:53,480 How are you, darling? 159 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,000 Exhausted. 160 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,480 Sleep-deprived. Doesn't show. 161 00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:59,999 Much. 162 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,160 Much. 163 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,720 Do you mind her being in here? 164 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:08,000 Her name's Isabel, Jim. 165 00:10:08,001 --> 00:10:09,440 Her name's Isabel, Jim. 166 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,840 It's a bit odd, 167 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,920 but I know why you've done it. 168 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,000 I want this room used again. 169 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,400 How are you, Dad? 170 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:24,000 Oh, you know... 171 00:10:24,001 --> 00:10:26,000 Oh, you know... 172 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,920 No, I don't. 173 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:31,999 It's very difficult, obviously. 174 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:32,960 It's very difficult, obviously. 175 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,760 Megrahi lost his appeal. 176 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,240 He's in prison now over-Shall we go downstairs, let her sleep? 177 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:39,999 But trying to get any information about how he is, 178 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:40,960 But trying to get any information about how he is, 179 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,640 is proving impossible. You're still convinced of his innocence? 180 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:47,999 Of course. 181 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:48,160 Of course. 182 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,240 You only have to look at his failed appeal. 183 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:51,720 All kinds of new evidence heard, 184 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,560 new information about the shopkeeper, Heathrow. 185 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,999 You know there was a break-in? He has to appeal again. 186 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,256 You know there was a break-in? He has to appeal again. 187 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,840 Jim! Jim! He has to show- Jim, please. 188 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,760 Hello? Hey, Jim. Good news. 189 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:20,000 I've just heard Megrahi is being granted application 190 00:11:20,001 --> 00:11:22,400 I've just heard Megrahi is being granted application 191 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,520 for a second appeal. Oh, that is fantastic. 192 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,760 He's also got rid of his legal team, hired a new lawyer, Roddy McGill. 193 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:28,000 He was with Fhimah's defence team. Yeah, well, Megrahi is obviously 194 00:11:28,001 --> 00:11:31,160 He was with Fhimah's defence team. Yeah, well, Megrahi is obviously 195 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,000 hoping for the Midas touch. Also, Jim, 196 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,520 I found a detective who was on the original investigation. 197 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:36,000 He wants to talk. Oh, I've gotta go. 198 00:11:36,001 --> 00:11:38,000 He wants to talk. Oh, I've gotta go. 199 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:54,800 Bryan? 200 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:56,720 What the hell are you doing here? 201 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,000 I said no. Oh, you phoned me... 202 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,000 Aye, then I thought better of it. Now, fuck off. 203 00:12:00,001 --> 00:12:02,200 Aye, then I thought better of it. Now, fuck off. 204 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,320 Look, I remember talking to you a few weeks after Lockerbie 205 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,999 about the FBI, CIA. Possible interference in the investigation. 206 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:08,800 About the FBI, CIA. Possible interference in the investigation. 207 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,560 Evidence tampering. I... 208 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,520 I can't speak to you. I'm still with the force. 209 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:14,840 Why call me out of the blue 14 years later? 210 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:15,999 You know there's been a cover-up, don't you? 211 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,720 You know there's been a cover-up, don't you? 212 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,200 You're looking in the wrong place. 213 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:22,920 What do you mean? 214 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,240 Bryan... 215 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,680 What do you mean? 216 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,000 What do you mean? 217 00:12:32,001 --> 00:12:33,200 What do you mean? 218 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:39,999 Your source pan out? 219 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,200 Your source pan out? 220 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,080 Uh, no. He got spooked. 221 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,880 But, um, I'll give it a couple more days 222 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:47,999 and try again. 223 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:48,840 And try again. 224 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,920 I'd drop it, Guthrie. There are bigger things going on. 225 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,000 Mr McGill. 226 00:13:52,001 --> 00:13:53,760 Mr McGill. 227 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,760 I've got a Jim Swire here. 228 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,800 It's very good to meet you, Mr McGill. 229 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,999 Congratulations on getting Fhimah off. 230 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,480 Congratulations on getting Fhimah off. 231 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,240 Well, we're hoping for a repeat performance. 232 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,440 Um... Shona Randall, my senior associate. 233 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:08,000 John Ashton, our researcher. 234 00:14:08,001 --> 00:14:09,640 John Ashton, our researcher. 235 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,360 As you can see, we're targeting the prosecution's weak spots. 236 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:16,000 Tony Gauci being a big one. 237 00:14:16,001 --> 00:14:17,400 Tony Gauci being a big one. 238 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,960 I see you have Robert Baer's name there. 239 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,760 Ex-CIA case officer who was based in the Middle East. 240 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:23,999 You certainly need to talk to him. 241 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:24,720 You certainly need to talk to him. 242 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,240 What he says in that book about Iran being behind the bomb 243 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,680 is potentially game-changing. Yeah, I know. 244 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,999 But I've had no response from him or his publisher. 245 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:32,160 But I've had no response from him or his publisher. 246 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,200 I do know he happens to have a book tour coming up. 247 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,999 What are Megrahi's chances? I'd say it's pretty good. 248 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:40,760 What are Megrahi's chances? I'd say it's pretty good. 249 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,960 But it's up to the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, not us. 250 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,160 I will never understand it. 251 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,999 The prosecution built its entire case around the claim 252 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:48,840 The prosecution built its entire case around the claim 253 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,320 that they acted together. I mean, even the UN observer 254 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,400 and the trial questioned how judges came up with guilty in one case 255 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,999 and not guilty in the other. Well, we need to make sure 256 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:56,800 and not guilty in the other. Well, we need to make sure 257 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,480 the Review Commission sees the absurdity of that. 258 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,440 It's a total miscarriage of justice. 259 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,999 As you can see, Dr Swire, we're in the midst of doing exactly that. 260 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,640 As you can see, Dr Swire, we're in the midst of doing exactly that. 261 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:11,999 I want to visit Mr Megrahi. 262 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,080 I want to visit Mr Megrahi. 263 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,720 I fought long and hard for that trial. 264 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:20,000 I want to meet him. 265 00:15:20,001 --> 00:15:21,960 I want to meet him. 266 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,280 All that blood on his hands. 267 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:36,000 How can you, of all people, 268 00:15:36,001 --> 00:15:37,960 How can you, of all people, 269 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,000 be able to be in the same room as him? 270 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,440 Did you kill my daughter? 271 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,720 No. 272 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:47,999 I did not. 273 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,000 I did not. 274 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,999 Forgive me. I had to hear you say it. 275 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,096 Forgive me. I had to hear you say it. 276 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,120 Sometimes... 277 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,120 ..it is best to be direct. 278 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,000 You must have other questions. 279 00:17:04,001 --> 00:17:05,520 You must have other questions. 280 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,560 Ask. 281 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,800 How are you? 282 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:12,000 I will spend 20 years in a foreign jail for a... 283 00:17:12,001 --> 00:17:15,120 I will spend 20 years in a foreign jail for a... 284 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,440 crime I did not commit. 285 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:20,000 My family have had to move to this foreign country 286 00:17:20,001 --> 00:17:22,320 My family have had to move to this foreign country 287 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:24,680 where they are abused and attacked daily. 288 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:27,999 I can't imagine what it must be like for you, being in here. 289 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,136 I can't imagine what it must be like for you, being in here. 290 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,640 With your family having to suffer that. 291 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,360 Especially knowing what I know now. What do you know now? 292 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,000 That the case against you is a sham. 293 00:17:36,001 --> 00:17:37,176 That the case against you is a sham. 294 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,040 A travesty of justice. 295 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,480 And I will do everything in my power 296 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,920 to help you, Mr Megrahi. 297 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:44,000 Get your conviction overturned. 298 00:17:44,001 --> 00:17:46,120 Get your conviction overturned. 299 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,440 I... 300 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,480 I am intrigued. 301 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,960 It is to absolve your guilt? 302 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,960 Like I said, Dr Swire, sometimes it's best to be direct. 303 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,320 You are here partly because of my actions. 304 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,280 Not a day goes by without my bitterly regretting that. 305 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:08,000 I was led to believe that the evidence against you was watertight. 306 00:18:08,001 --> 00:18:11,160 I was led to believe that the evidence against you was watertight. 307 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,520 Incontestable. Yes. 308 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,880 They did their best. 309 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:16,000 They lied, deceived. 310 00:18:16,001 --> 00:18:18,320 They lied, deceived. 311 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:19,920 They succeeded. 312 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,120 Dr Swire... 313 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,600 my country Libya is paying for my legal fees. 314 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,999 I have new legal team after the failure... 315 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,640 I have new legal team after the failure... 316 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,400 ..of my first appeal. 317 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,760 So, please tell me, 318 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:39,999 why do I need you to help me? 319 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,160 Why do I need you to help me? 320 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,360 What do you expect, Dr Swire? 321 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,999 I would embrace you as my saviour? 322 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:48,600 I would embrace you as my saviour? 323 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,640 No, that's not what I expect at all. 324 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,000 I have to do something. 325 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:56,760 I have to do something. 326 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,880 Because if you do not... 327 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,520 we may never find out who killed your daughter. 328 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:04,000 Yes. 329 00:19:04,001 --> 00:19:05,680 Yes. 330 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,760 So in truth, it's not about me at all, is it, Dr Swire? 331 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,840 Perhaps not. 332 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,000 Not entirely. 333 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,720 I wear this badge for my daughter. 334 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,999 And now wear it also for you, Mr Megrahi. 335 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,600 And now wear it also for you, Mr Megrahi. 336 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,960 And simply for what it says. 337 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:35,999 The truth must be known. 338 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,000 The truth must be known. 339 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,000 Please... 340 00:19:44,001 --> 00:19:45,400 Please... 341 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,560 ..call me Baset. 342 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,000 I thought I might find you here. 343 00:20:00,001 --> 00:20:01,281 I thought I might find you here. 344 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,960 You're hard to get hold of these days. 345 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,840 Good to see you, Jim. 346 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:07,999 How long has it been? Nearly a year? Something like that. 347 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,240 How long has it been? Nearly a year? Something like that. 348 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,640 You on your way to Skye? I visited Barlinnie this morning. 349 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:16,000 You never cease to amaze. 350 00:20:16,001 --> 00:20:17,840 You never cease to amaze. 351 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,280 What if I got you an interview with Baset? 352 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,999 Baset? I can arrange it. I can speak to him, 353 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,960 Baset? I can arrange it. I can speak to him, 354 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,440 speak to his appeal team- Megrahi's not news, Jim. 355 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:31,999 The last time I wrote anything about Lockerbie, 356 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:32,320 The last time I wrote anything about Lockerbie, 357 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,440 buried on page eight, two columns. 358 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,400 The world and my editor wants 9/11 and the war on terror. 359 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,999 I'm being left behind. You can interview both of us. 360 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:40,120 I'm being left behind. You can interview both of us. 361 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,160 The father of Flora Swire and the innocent man convicted of her murder. 362 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,360 Then the press would murder you, Jim. 363 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,999 Believe me, that's not the exposure you're wanting. 364 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,696 Believe me, that's not the exposure you're wanting. 365 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,080 The... Look, Jim... 366 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,520 The thing is, 367 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,160 most people think he did it. 368 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,640 And now, most people just want to forget. 369 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,240 Bye, darling. Take care. Love you. Drive safely now. 370 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,000 I do. 371 00:21:20,001 --> 00:21:22,080 I do. 372 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,560 How was Cathy? Isabel? 373 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:23,999 What? 374 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,000 What? 375 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,160 It saddens me you have to ask that. 376 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:31,120 They're fine, Jim. 377 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,320 How is he? 378 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:40,000 Struggling. 379 00:22:40,001 --> 00:22:41,320 Struggling. 380 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,320 I think he appreciated my visit. 381 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:54,120 Did you not want me to go? 382 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,000 I'm not sure it matters what I say anymore. 383 00:22:56,001 --> 00:22:57,920 I'm not sure it matters what I say anymore. 384 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,840 He's all you talk about. You know that, don't you? 385 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:03,999 I'm trying to get him freed. 386 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,056 I'm trying to get him freed. 387 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,080 Hmm. 388 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,960 You've not asked one of us directly what we think. 389 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,680 You've never wanted to sit down and discuss it as a family. 390 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,120 You just assume we're behind you, supporting you. 391 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,999 Is that what the children think? 392 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,280 Is that what the children think? 393 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,400 Well, why can't they just come and speak to me? 394 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,999 Because they don't think you listen, Jim, and you don't. 395 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,336 Because they don't think you listen, Jim, and you don't. 396 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,200 You haven't noticed they hardly come here anymore. 397 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:35,999 There are too many bad memories. 398 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,280 There are too many bad memories. 399 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,360 But this-this is where they grew up. This is where they all grew up. 400 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,920 I think we should move. 401 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,000 I'm not leaving this house! 402 00:23:52,001 --> 00:23:53,160 I'm not leaving this house! 403 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,240 I want to be closer to my children, to my grandchildren. 404 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,360 I want to be around life, not death. 405 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,000 Not-Not death every single minute of the day. 406 00:24:00,001 --> 00:24:02,040 Not-Not death every single minute of the day. 407 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,880 Would I rejoin the CIA if I was asked? 408 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,000 With all due respect, 409 00:24:16,001 --> 00:24:17,040 With all due respect, 410 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,200 have you read any of my books? 411 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,040 Thank you. 412 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,999 Jim Swire, as I live and breathe. 413 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:32,600 Jim Swire, as I live and breathe. 414 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,920 Professional thorn in the side, just like me. 415 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,760 How are you? It's good to meet you, Bob. 416 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,840 This is John Ashton from Megrahi's appeal team. 417 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,999 Of course. Let me finish up here. 418 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,440 Of course. Let me finish up here. 419 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,040 I'll meet you guys in the next room to this in ten. 420 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,280 No prying ears. 421 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,999 Damn good to meet you, Jim. 422 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,080 Damn good to meet you, Jim. 423 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,760 Look, Lockerbie is very simple. It was Iran's revenge. 424 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,960 For the Americans shooting down their Airbus? 425 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000 Like I say in the book, the CIA had known about it all along. 426 00:24:56,001 --> 00:24:58,440 Like I say in the book, the CIA had known about it all along. 427 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,840 The bombing of Flight 103 was conceived, 428 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,920 authorized and financed by Iran. 429 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:03,999 They paid the Syrian-based PFLP-GC to do it. 430 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,960 They paid the Syrian-based PFLP-GC to do it. 431 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,960 The bomb was made by a PFLP-GC bomb maker, 432 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,800 a Jordanian named Marwan Khreesat. 433 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,999 We know that they were raided by German police 434 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,536 We know that they were raided by German police 435 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,120 in October 1988.The Autumn Leaves operation.Yeah. 436 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,880 They arrested some of their main players, 437 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,520 but others slipped through the net. 438 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:20,000 They only found four explosive devices. 439 00:25:20,001 --> 00:25:21,960 They only found four explosive devices. 440 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,240 Lost track of the fifth. 441 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,800 I believe that was the bomb that killed your daughter, Jim. 442 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:27,999 Your guy, Megrahi, 443 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:28,720 Your guy, Megrahi, 444 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,280 had nothing to do with it. 445 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,400 You talk about a meeting. 446 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,160 The Iranians met with the PFLP-GC people in Beirut. 447 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,000 We had telephone intercepts of them discussing it. 448 00:25:36,001 --> 00:25:38,040 We had telephone intercepts of them discussing it. 449 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,000 Two days after Lockerbie, 450 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,999 Iran transferred $11 million into a PFLP-GC bank account. 451 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,240 Iran transferred $11 million into a PFLP-GC bank account. 452 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,040 We have records of the transfer. 453 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:55,200 Hell, we had ironclad proof. 454 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,760 Handed over our intel to the US Administration. What did they do? 455 00:25:58,800 --> 00:25:59,999 One look, quietly shelved it. 456 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,136 One look, quietly shelved it. 457 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,040 Why? There were bigger problems. 458 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,000 Like Saddam Hussein. 459 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,999 Once he invaded Kuwait in 1990, suddenly everything changed. 460 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:08,400 Once he invaded Kuwait in 1990, suddenly everything changed. 461 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,000 We were at war, and we needed Iran and Syria on our side, 462 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,200 so the heat was off them, sands shifted. 463 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,999 They pointed the finger at Libya. A rogue state, 464 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,840 They pointed the finger at Libya. A rogue state, 465 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,640 proven terrorist links, developing weapons of mass destruction. 466 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,440 Gaddafi was the top of our hit list. 467 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,680 Plus, we needed to throw some kind of bone 468 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:24,000 to the victims' grieving families. 469 00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:25,720 To the victims' grieving families. 470 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,320 Libya was that bone. 471 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,040 This has to go into the submission, John. 472 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,040 The Review Commission have to know about this. Would you speak to them? 473 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,800 Go on the record? Sure. 474 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,999 I'll talk to whoever you want, but it won't make a difference. 475 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,336 I'll talk to whoever you want, but it won't make a difference. 476 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,440 Right now, Libya is right where we want them. 477 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,920 Tomorrow, that could all be flipped. 478 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,999 Libya has oil, remember. 479 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:48,320 Libya has oil, remember. 480 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,520 Suddenly Gaddafi will be back in favour, 481 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,560 or he'll buy his way back into favour. 482 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,999 And Megrahi will stay guilty for as long as they need him to. 483 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,136 And Megrahi will stay guilty for as long as they need him to. 484 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,240 It's all transactional, Jim, so tread carefully. 485 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,999 You don't want to be on loose footing when the sands shift. 486 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,320 You don't want to be on loose footing when the sands shift. 487 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,999 There it is, our full report ready to be submitted 488 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:12,520 There it is, our full report ready to be submitted 489 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,920 to the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission. 490 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,400 Where's the champagne, then? 491 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,240 On ice. For now, it's the pub. 492 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,000 We have to get it accepted first. 493 00:27:20,001 --> 00:27:21,720 We have to get it accepted first. 494 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,999 We appreciate what you've gone through to help out. 495 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:28,240 We appreciate what you've gone through to help out. 496 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,480 How long will it take the Review Commission to decide? 497 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,320 Well, they're professionals, they know what they're doing. 498 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:38,480 Thank you. 499 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,240 It's a man's incarceration we're talking about. 500 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:43,999 I'd say a year... 501 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000 I'd say a year... 502 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,680 ..maybe less. 503 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:13,240 They took their time... 504 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,280 but the Review Commission have finally 505 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:16,000 delivered their statement of reasons. 506 00:28:16,001 --> 00:28:17,600 Delivered their statement of reasons. 507 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,880 They rejected all of our submissions. 508 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:23,999 Shit. 509 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000 Shit. 510 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,160 Apart from six. 511 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,999 Six grounds for referral back to an Appeal Court. 512 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,920 Six grounds for referral back to an Appeal Court. 513 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,960 The first ground of referral. 514 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,520 Unreasonable verdict. 515 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,999 The judges were satisfied the purchase of clothing 516 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,520 The judges were satisfied the purchase of clothing 517 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,680 was made from Gauci's shop on December 7th, 1988, 518 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,720 when Megrahi was in Malta. 519 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,999 But Tony Gauci was never clear on the exact purchase date. 520 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:56,920 But Tony Gauci was never clear on the exact purchase date. 521 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,320 He tell the court a Libyan customer buy umbrella from his shop 522 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,520 because it's raining outside. 523 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:03,999 My defence team called Malta's chief meteorologist... 524 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,160 My defence team called Malta's chief meteorologist... 525 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,680 Who said there was no rain on the 7th of December. Yes, but... 526 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,999 there was rain on the 23rd of November. 527 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,720 There was rain on the 23rd of November. 528 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,440 The only other potential purchase date matching Gauci's statement... 529 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,999 and I was not on Malta on the 23rd of November. 530 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,840 And I was not on Malta on the 23rd of November. 531 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,120 Baset? Please... 532 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,080 I must use bathroom. 533 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,960 Referral grounds two and three, 534 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,920 undisclosed evidence relating 535 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,520 to Gauci's identification of Megrahi, 536 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,999 and the date when the clothes were purchased from his shop. 537 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,696 And the date when the clothes were purchased from his shop. 538 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,720 Thank you. 539 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,040 When the Commission looked into this... Everything alright? 540 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,000 ..they found that Gauci actually gave 23 statements, 541 00:29:44,001 --> 00:29:47,320 ..they found that Gauci actually gave 23 statements, 542 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,920 and he was visited by the Scottish Police, Jim, more than 50 times. 543 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:51,999 50? 50. You remember, 544 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,840 50? 50. You remember, 545 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,000 only 19 of his statements were given to my defence team. 546 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,999 The details of these meetings, they have never been revealed. 547 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,160 The details of these meetings, they have never been revealed. 548 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,840 What else did Gauci claim in them, I wonder? 549 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,000 By withholding this information, 550 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,999 the Crown denied the defence items of real importance... 551 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,576 the Crown denied the defence items of real importance... 552 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,880 in undermining the Crown case. 553 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,400 Fourth referral. Undisclosed evidence 554 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,999 about Gauci's interest in rewards. 555 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:16,680 About Gauci's interest in rewards. 556 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,200 The commission discovered three Scottish police documents 557 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,760 that suggested that Gauci... 558 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,999 Gauchi was aware that a substantial reward 559 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,920 Gauchi was aware that a substantial reward 560 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,280 was an offer from the US Government. 561 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,400 A reward for giving evidence? 562 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,000 Jesus! Did he get paid? 563 00:30:32,001 --> 00:30:33,400 Jesus! Did he get paid? 564 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,160 Referral five. Undisclosed secret intelligence documents. 565 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,999 Last year, the Crown informed the commission 566 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:40,640 Last year, the Crown informed the commission 567 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,880 of two classified documents held at Dumfries police station. 568 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,800 The commission believes non-disclosure 569 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:47,999 of one of the documents indicates... 570 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,416 of one of the documents indicates... 571 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,720 that a miscarriage of justice may have occurred. 572 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,480 That is what we were waiting for. 573 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,360 Music to my ears. 574 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,000 It's all centered, everything, on Gauci's evidence. 575 00:30:56,001 --> 00:30:58,240 It's all centered, everything, on Gauci's evidence. 576 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,000 They seem to have dismissed pretty much everything else. 577 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,800 There's nothing here about Robert Baer, PFLP-GC. 578 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:04,000 There's nothing whatsoever about the timer fragment. 579 00:31:04,001 --> 00:31:07,080 There's nothing whatsoever about the timer fragment. 580 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,000 You're frustrated. 581 00:31:12,001 --> 00:31:13,400 You're frustrated. 582 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,840 I'm happy for you, of course, I am. 583 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,999 But there's nothing in here that helps us discover what did happen. 584 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:20,040 But there's nothing in here that helps us discover what did happen. 585 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,520 Nothing that gets us closer to the truth. 586 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,520 It's, uh... 587 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,600 You would say, one step at a time. 588 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,999 So, Jim, one step at a time. 589 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,120 So, Jim, one step at a time. 590 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,880 I didn't think I'd see you again. 591 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,720 So you left the Dumfries force? 592 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,240 Megrahi got his second appeal. 593 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,080 Second appeal. Possible miscarriage of justice. 594 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,000 And the Crown with a hell of a lot of questions to answer. 595 00:32:08,001 --> 00:32:09,776 And the Crown with a hell of a lot of questions to answer. 596 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,560 Including one about undisclosed secret documents 597 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,600 held at your police station. 598 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,520 I'll drive. You talk. 599 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,600 One of these documents is a letter from the King of Jordan 600 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:23,999 to the then Prime Minister John Major, 601 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:24,600 to the then Prime Minister John Major, 602 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,280 intimating that the Libyans were innocent of the crime. 603 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,120 It points the finger at the PFLP-GC and the bomb maker Marwan Khreesat, 604 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,000 who is believed by many, 605 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,000 who is believed by many, 606 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,040 including and according to Robert Baer and most of the CIA, 607 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,960 to have built the bomb that brought down Flight 103. 608 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,000 Now, these documents were known to the Crown during the trial, 609 00:32:40,001 --> 00:32:42,256 Now, these documents were known to the Crown during the trial, 610 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,240 and they withheld them from the defence. 611 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,120 We're still not allowed to see them. 612 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,920 So what are we talking about here? 613 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:48,000 A cover-up? Was Megrahi framed? 614 00:32:48,001 --> 00:32:50,040 A cover-up? Was Megrahi framed? 615 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,440 Whatever it is, they want to keep it buried. It's mucky as hell. 616 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,680 So why are you still standing here? 617 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:56,000 Go and talk to people and find out what they're not telling us. 618 00:32:56,001 --> 00:32:59,400 Go and talk to people and find out what they're not telling us. 619 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,040 Then write the bloody thing. 620 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,760 Jim, it's Murray. 621 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,600 Good to hear from you, Murray. 622 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:12,000 Wait till you hear what I've got for you. 623 00:33:12,001 --> 00:33:13,640 Wait till you hear what I've got for you. 624 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,320 Front page? Without a doubt. 625 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,200 What do you mean we can't publish it? 626 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:28,000 We want to-But you can't. 627 00:33:28,001 --> 00:33:30,200 We want to-But you can't. 628 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,960 Phil Marsden, our lawyer. Why the hell not? 629 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,999 We ran the story past the FCO for comment. I got a call back 630 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:36,120 We ran the story past the FCO for comment. I got a call back 631 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,880 threatening legal action. You don't think that's just scare tactics? 632 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,080 The Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, 633 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,999 has issued a public interest immunity certificate, 634 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,016 has issued a public interest immunity certificate, 635 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,600 a PII.What? For reasons of national security. 636 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,640 To protect the contents of certain documents. 637 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:52,000 These documents your source is talking about 638 00:33:52,001 --> 00:33:54,360 These documents your source is talking about 639 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,240 may well be the same ones Megrahi's defence team 640 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,999 were denied access to under that PII. 641 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,480 Were denied access to under that PII. 642 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,480 We're still going to print it, right? 643 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:07,999 Publish and be damned and all that? You'll be damned, and I'll be sued. 644 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,816 Publish and be damned and all that? You'll be damned, and I'll be sued. 645 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,440 And your legal fees alone will mean this newspaper goes down. 646 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,520 I just don't get it. The documents in that safe, 647 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,880 they're over 20 years old. Makes no matter. 648 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,999 This is the long arm of the state. 649 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,360 This is the long arm of the state. 650 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,280 For national security, read intelligence services, MI6, 651 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,999 CIA, who knows who else? Protected like they always are- 652 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,216 CIA, who knows who else? Protected like they always are- 653 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:35,320 You said you'd publish it. You phoned me up 654 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,640 and you told me you'd publish it. Yeah, I know, but-No. 655 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,999 Take it somewhere else. Someone will print it. Someone not afraid of them. 656 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:40,960 Take it somewhere else. Someone will print it. Someone not afraid of them. 657 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,720 Not gonna do that. 658 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:48,000 Give it to me. 659 00:34:48,001 --> 00:34:49,280 Give it to me. 660 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,080 I will. 661 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,240 I'm not going to let them get away with it. 662 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,999 This is serious. 663 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:56,280 This is serious. 664 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,440 You need to see sense. You could be sued. 665 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,440 I could be sued. 666 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:12,000 You ever think this might be a lost cause, Jim? 667 00:35:12,001 --> 00:35:15,640 You ever think this might be a lost cause, Jim? 668 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,680 That they will never allow us to know the truth? 669 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,760 I never thought I'd hear you say that. 670 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:36,000 I'm so sorry, but it's cancer. 671 00:35:36,001 --> 00:35:38,240 I'm so sorry, but it's cancer. 672 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,360 Prostate cancer. 673 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,999 Will he survive? 674 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,000 Will he survive? 675 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,880 I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that. 676 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,840 I'm sorry. 677 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:15,999 How is he? 678 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,000 How is he? 679 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,000 Thank you. 680 00:36:32,001 --> 00:36:33,160 Thank you. 681 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:39,999 How're you doing? 682 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,000 How're you doing? 683 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,680 Please, go sit down. 684 00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:46,040 OK. I can do it. I can do it. 685 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:55,960 You have been told? 686 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,440 Yes. 687 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,600 Is it... 688 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,000 severe? 689 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,000 Yes. Yes, it is. 690 00:37:04,001 --> 00:37:05,160 Yes. Yes, it is. 691 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,960 But I've had patients who fought their cancer, who beat it. 692 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,999 And you, Baset, you're a fighter. 693 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:12,960 And you, Baset, you're a fighter. 694 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,000 Mmm. 695 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,040 I don't want to die here, Jim. 696 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,000 I don't want that either. 697 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,960 I don't want that either. 698 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,560 I don't want my family to see me die here. 699 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,999 I want to go home to die. 700 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,000 I want to go home to die. 701 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:44,000 Jim... 702 00:37:44,001 --> 00:37:45,880 Jim... 703 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:51,999 ..the UK and Libya are negotiating 704 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,840 ..the UK and Libya are negotiating 705 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,440 a prisoner transfer agreement. 706 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,360 I heard. 707 00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:59,999 I will be instructing my Libyan lawyers to make an application to... 708 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,680 I will be instructing my Libyan lawyers to make an application to... 709 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:07,999 ..return home and serve whatever time I have left there. 710 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,160 ..return home and serve whatever time I have left there. 711 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,200 And what about your appeal? 712 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,480 You think I would give it up? 713 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:20,160 If Prisoner Transfer is granted, you'll be in Libya. 714 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,360 Jim... 715 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,400 OK... 716 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,560 ..I have said to you before, I will say it again. 717 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:32,000 I will not go down in history as a Lockerbie bomber. 718 00:38:32,001 --> 00:38:35,080 I will not go down in history as a Lockerbie bomber. 719 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,600 I will not let them do that to me. 720 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,999 I will never give up my appeal. 721 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,880 I will never give up my appeal. 722 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,280 Whether I am here, 723 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,720 in Libya, dead or alive... 724 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:48,000 my appeal will go to court. 725 00:38:48,001 --> 00:38:49,760 My appeal will go to court. 726 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,400 Trust me and you will get what you want. 727 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,160 My name will be cleared, 728 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,480 and you will go on and find out who really did this. 729 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,000 Baset, I'm afraid there's a problem. 730 00:39:20,001 --> 00:39:22,080 Baset, I'm afraid there's a problem. 731 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,240 Under Scottish law... 732 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,240 ..to be considered for a PT, 733 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,800 a prisoner can't have an appeal ongoing. 734 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,080 You'd have to give it up. 735 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:43,999 Baset, there is another way. 736 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,120 Baset, there is another way. 737 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,560 You're released on compassionate grounds. 738 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,520 You'll be examined by three separate doctors 739 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:51,999 who will decide... 740 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:52,760 who will decide... 741 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,840 how long you have to live. 742 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,160 And if it's less than three months, 743 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,000 then there's a good possibility 744 00:40:00,001 --> 00:40:01,520 then there's a good possibility 745 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,200 that you will return home and you can keep your appeal. 746 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:07,999 These are the options. 747 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,000 These are the options. 748 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,800 You must decide. 749 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,800 Well, we have beliefs and values in Scotland that 750 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:16,000 those who perpetrate crimes, certainly heinous atrocities 751 00:40:16,001 --> 00:40:18,640 those who perpetrate crimes, certainly heinous atrocities 752 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,640 such as this, should be brought to justice. 753 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,320 That has been done. 754 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,999 Equally, we recognise that justice has to be tempered by mercy. 755 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,816 Equally, we recognise that justice has to be tempered by mercy. 756 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,320 That there has to be the ability to recognise 757 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,240 that although he did not show compassion to the victims, 758 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,000 that doesn't mean that we should lower our beliefs, or our values. 759 00:40:32,001 --> 00:40:34,496 That doesn't mean that we should lower our beliefs, or our values. 760 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,440 A campaign for the release of the man 761 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,040 convicted of the Lockerbie bombing was launched today. 762 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,000 Justice for Megrahi is appealing for the early release 763 00:40:40,001 --> 00:40:41,776 Justice for Megrahi is appealing for the early release 764 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,880 of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds. 765 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,840 I just think it is absolutely wrong to release someone 766 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:48,000 who has been imprisoned based on evidence, 767 00:40:48,001 --> 00:40:51,160 who has been imprisoned based on evidence, 768 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,920 about his involvement in such a horrendous crime. 769 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,999 I think this is a very bad decision. 770 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,016 I think this is a very bad decision. 771 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,440 This man was convicted of murdering 270 people. 772 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,840 Some claim economic influences were key 773 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:04,000 to the deal struck by Tony Blair and Colonel Gaddafi 774 00:41:04,001 --> 00:41:06,360 to the deal struck by Tony Blair and Colonel Gaddafi 775 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,840 on the potential release of the Lockerbie bomber, 776 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,080 the so-called "deal in the desert." 777 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,000 The fact that Libyan oil reserves are now understood 778 00:41:12,001 --> 00:41:13,696 The fact that Libyan oil reserves are now understood 779 00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:17,080 to be far greater than they may have thought to have been in the past... 780 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,840 shouldn't be overlooked. 781 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:19,999 Megrahi will continue with his appeal, 782 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,880 Megrahi will continue with his appeal, 783 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,880 and regardless of opinion on his conviction, 784 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,800 the Justice For Megrahi campaign urges the Scottish government 785 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,999 to send Mr Megrahi back to Libya on compassionate grounds. 786 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,281 To send Mr Megrahi back to Libya on compassionate grounds. 787 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,000 Jim, take it off. 788 00:41:44,001 --> 00:41:45,080 Jim, take it off. 789 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,320 Please. Not here. Not today. 790 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,400 I'm not ashamed. 791 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,999 I'll look them in the eye. For us...? 792 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:52,360 I'll look them in the eye. For us...? 793 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,560 Do it for us. 794 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,720 John Michael Gerard Ahern. 795 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,920 Sarah Margaret Aicher. 796 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,320 John David Ackerstrom. 797 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,720 Ronald Ely Alexander. 798 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:16,000 Thomas Joseph Ammerman. 799 00:42:16,001 --> 00:42:18,080 Thomas Joseph Ammerman. 800 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,720 Bridget Concannon. 801 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,680 Thomas Concannon. 802 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:24,000 Roger Elwood Hurst. 803 00:42:24,001 --> 00:42:26,120 Roger Elwood Hurst. 804 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,720 Elizabeth Sophie Ivell. 805 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,999 Andrew Alexander Teran. 806 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:32,280 Andrew Alexander Teran. 807 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,840 Arva Anthony Thomas. 808 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,040 Jonathan Ryan Thomas. 809 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,000 Flora McDonald Margaret Swire. 810 00:42:40,001 --> 00:42:42,120 Flora McDonald Margaret Swire. 811 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,880 I don't know what he thinks he's doing. 812 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:56,000 This should be about remembrance, not politics. 813 00:42:56,001 --> 00:42:58,400 This should be about remembrance, not politics. 814 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,760 I can't believe he's here. 815 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,999 It's a disgrace. He's befriended a killer. 816 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,000 It's a disgrace. He's befriended a killer. 817 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,680 Lovely to see you again. 818 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,760 Four grandkids myself actually. Yeah. 819 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,640 Is it Ellen? 820 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,440 Jane's spoken a lot about you. Sorry. This is Jim, my husband. 821 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,640 Yes, I know. Hello, Jim. 822 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,400 Look, I'm sorry, I think we're running low on hot water. 823 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,720 I'll see you shortly. 824 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,999 Um, I'd like to go. 825 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,000 Um, I'd like to go. 826 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,999 Everyone here agrees with me, the world agrees. 827 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:16,160 Everyone here agrees with me, the world agrees. 828 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,800 Releasing Megrahi would be insane, immoral, reprehensible. 829 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,200 He has to serve his time here in Scotland. 830 00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:24,000 Then they can send his ashes back to Libya in a casket. 831 00:44:24,001 --> 00:44:26,320 Then they can send his ashes back to Libya in a casket. 832 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,680 Jim. Jim! 833 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,880 Can't you see it from their point of view for one second? 834 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,040 It is so completely irrational. 835 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,240 Who are you to decide what's rational or irrational? 836 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,000 Maybe this appeal isn't rational to them. 837 00:44:48,001 --> 00:44:50,160 Maybe this appeal isn't rational to them. 838 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,000 Maybe none of this is rational 839 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,640 to people who process their grief by moving forwards 840 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:55,999 rather than scrambling around in the past. 841 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:56,720 Rather than scrambling around in the past. 842 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,600 They're hurt and they're angry. 843 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,720 And completely fixated on one man. Oh, not like you, then? 844 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:10,800 That's how they cope. 845 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:11,999 This is how you cope. I am not coping. 846 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,560 This is how you cope. I am not coping. 847 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,080 Oh, yes, of course. You're doing this for Flora. What you always say. 848 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,999 But it's not about Flora anymore, Jim. 849 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:20,480 But it's not about Flora anymore, Jim. 850 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,120 It's not even about him. 851 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:27,999 You have visitors. 852 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,000 You have visitors. 853 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,280 You're just doing anything you can to avoid grieving. 854 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,560 That is simply not true. Jim! 855 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:36,000 You can't sit still. 856 00:45:36,001 --> 00:45:37,480 You can't sit still. 857 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,360 You can't be silent for one moment to take in what happened to us. 858 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:43,999 If you did, then you'd see the-the damage. 859 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,256 If you did, then you'd see the-the damage. 860 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,200 You're saying this is my fault? No. I'm to blame, too. 861 00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:51,280 But you're missing everything, Jim. 862 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,560 We need you now before it's too late. 863 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,880 Baset has promised me he's committed to fighting this. 864 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:23,999 Once his appeal is over, 865 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:24,720 Once his appeal is over, 866 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,120 we will find out who really did this. 867 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,600 Subtitles by Sky Access Services www.skyaccessibility.sky